0  |  skin: 1 2 3  | Login | Join  | 

Audioindy.com

Mail discussion to a friend Search forums House rules Live chat Login to access your admin About 7161 forums Forum home New Topic

Forums   -   Mixing & FX

Subject: sidechaining. again.


Viewing all 13 messages  -  View by pages of 10:  1 2


Original Message 1/13                 Date: 11-Nov-05  @  05:02 PM   -   sidechaining. again.

Dominic

Posts: 1128

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file



When I want the kick to "pump" the mix do I have to set all the track's (apart from kick) compressors to be sidechained from the kick compressor? When I try to get the kick track to pump the bass track, it sounds crap. All distorted sounding. Is there a way I could apply my compression settings to the main kick track and then set up a ghost kick track to pump everything else? I don't want Eric Prydz style but something more subtle just to give a slight "pumping house" quality to my mix. What's the best way to tackle this in Logic?



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 2/13                 Date: 11-Nov-05  @  06:12 PM   -   RE: sidechaining. again.

milan

Posts: 5701

Link?: Link

File?:  No file



quote
When I want the kick to "pump" the mix do I have to set all the track's (apart from kick) compressors to be sidechained from the kick compressor?


no. u send them to one stereo comp and sidechain kick to that.

quote
When I try to get the kick track to pump the bass track, it sounds crap.


try less compression, slower release.

quote
Is there a way I could apply my compression settings to the main kick track and then set up a ghost kick track to pump everything else?


sure.

quote
What's the best way to tackle this in Logic?


well, i use logic's compressor for that. send the kick via an aux send to a bus, set that bus to "no output" so it doesnt mess with your mix. route everything else you want to pump to a stereo bus (via outputs, not send), insert comp, and select the kick bus as the sidechain for it.

yes?


ok, gotta run... ciao!



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 3/13                 Date: 11-Nov-05  @  06:13 PM   -   RE: sidechaining. again.

milan

Posts: 5701

Link?: Link

File?:  No file



oh yeah, and mess with the comp parameters. hard/soft knee, ratio etc...



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 4/13                 Date: 12-Nov-05  @  09:34 AM   -   RE: sidechaining. again.

milan

Posts: 5701

Link?: Link

File?:  No file




[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 5/13                 Date: 12-Nov-05  @  10:16 AM   -   RE: sidechaining. again.

psylichon

Posts: 4573

Link?: Link

File?:  No file



I can tell you from all my experience as an engineer and everything I've read or heard about from other engineers is this:

Sidechain compression is rarely used.

I've personally never done it, even when the means were easy, and I know my colleagues basically never do it either. It's just not necessary. That "proper suckage" you speak of when the kick tugs at the mix just right is the result of sending a proper mix through a good stereo compressor/limiter. You will get punchier sounds by sub-bussing sections (rhythm, keys, vox, etc) to different busses, compressing carefully for proper color and pump, then sending the whole mix through a compressor tugging around 3 dB with att/rel times based on your material. Try putting the mix compressor on first and "mixing into it"... it will change how you eq and balance your instruments.

Stereo buss compressors (hardware and software) are all the rage on the gear forums, and for good reason. With more people mixing in the box and through summing boxes and whatnot, everyone wants to get "that SSL" sound or "that Neve" sound.... and this is largely the sound of the stereo buss compressor in those units all the new clones are modeling.



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 6/13                 Date: 12-Nov-05  @  03:27 PM   -   RE: sidechaining. again.

beds

Posts: 712

Link?: Link

File?:  No file



oi psy, do you or any of your less talented co-workers do "dance" music? like the stuff you hear on the radio here? 'just right' isn't what most of these tracks are about, it's more 'so over the top you can't help but notice' .. although that's not what our dom is after ...

the sidechain thing you hear on house tunes a la eric prydz, you could do by grouping stuff like pads and percussion and automating the pumping effect with volume envelopes .. do it for one bar then copy over. that's where you hear it, imo (pads especially)

dom, the nasty artifacts you hear are from using software sidechaining? i think you're probably driving the comp too much, try easing back on the send. maybe.



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 7/13                 Date: 12-Nov-05  @  07:16 PM   -   RE: sidechaining. again.

psylichon

Posts: 4573

Link?: Link

File?:  No file



touche. But I still claim you can get whatever compression effects you want 99% of the time without sidechaining by mixing into a compressor. My recommendations for subtlety can obviously be taken to extremes.

Try the free Blockfish compressor on "complex" mode and you'll see what I mean.



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 8/13                 Date: 17-Nov-05  @  01:38 PM   -   RE: sidechaining. again.

monkeybasket2001

Posts: 399

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file



i tend to agree with psy- im not pro but have always got a better 'daft punk' sound from compressing the beat as a whole and timing the release to the rhythm of the track- down to how the instruments react during the pump- i cant really explain why it works better than sidechaining (maybe its sidechaining thats too subtle?) and i tend to go for that compressed sound and when i do its usually though stereo compression on the whole mix...

now im loving the idea of buss comps for different sections- just wish i had some busses with inserts on them....

i generally compress my beat as a whole (for some reason- and this could be my mixing it tends to help gel it togther better), i compress my bass for eveness and compress the track as a whole if i want pump...

greg



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 9/13                 Date: 18-Nov-05  @  04:34 PM   -   RE: sidechaining. again.

k

Posts: 12353

Link?:  Link

File?:  No file



well sidechaimning one thing to another is only of use if you want something NOT in the effected signal to be pumped by something which IS present in another signal

if you comp'd a whole 4-on-the-floor mix, the kikdrum is going to be the controlling factor which triggers the comp sidechain (cos comps use a sidechain anyways to analyse the signal regardless of wether it's watching the main input or the sidechain input)... so the comp sees the big old kickdrum and locks down whatever else is underneath it... but you might not want the comp to be controlled by the kik... then use the sidechain socket and whatever source signal for the control... that might be anything from pumping the bass ONLY from a kick or ducking the pads slightly when the vocals sound, etc

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 10/13                 Date: 19-Nov-05  @  12:12 AM   -   RE: sidechaining. again.

psylichon

Posts: 4573

Link?: Link

File?:  No file



I will qualify my former statement that "like, pros don't sidechain, maaaan"

I guess when I hear someone ask about sidechain, it's because they're trying to "make their kick and bass lock" and it just doesn't really do that. I mean, sure it can, but if you got sloppy performances or a mismatch of tones, it's not going to make it magically gel, innit.

But a cool technique that mix engineers often DO use is sidechain filtering... you can really get a lot more mileage out of a compressor if you start fiddling with the sidechain. So you're not sending just one instrument to the sidechain, you're multing your mix to an EQ first then to the sidechain, as well as directly into the compressor audio path. Some comps (like blockfish, above) have a lowcut option for this very reason. By attenuating what is often the highest level of energy in the mix (the kick) in the sidechain, it allows you to dig in more without ugly artifacts from oversuck.



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 11/13                 Date: 19-Nov-05  @  04:01 AM   -   RE: sidechaining. again.

k

Posts: 12353

Link?:  Link

File?:  No file



___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 12/13                 Date: 19-Nov-05  @  06:39 PM   -   RE: sidechaining. again.

milan

Posts: 5701

Link?: Link

File?:  No file



quote
oversuck
what a word



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 13/13                 Date: 20-Nov-05  @  12:49 AM   -   RE: sidechaining. again.

k

Posts: 12353

Link?:  Link

File?:  No file



iheardat!

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Viewing all 13 messages  -  View by pages of 10:  1 2

There are 13 total messages for this topic





Reply to Thread

You need to register/login to use the forum.

Click here  to Signup or Login !

[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]



Back to Forum