Original Message 1/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  09:57 AM   -   phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

monkeybasket2001

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Hi all,

i'm currently having a phasing issue i need to correct- my drums and bass are all going into a subgroup- with that subgroup going out as mono into a filter/eq/comp and back into a channel on my mixer filtered to buggery- now all is good when the channel is played on its own or when the original is played on its own but obviously when they mix i get phasing issues at certain frequencies, im not playing the two at the same volume- the filtered version sits under the main- so im thinking the only way to correct this is change the phase of the mono lead coming outta the group and feeding the filter- but i dontr how to change the phase- is it case of swapping the two internal wires over at one side of the lead- as you can see im outta my depth but want to know how to solve this...

recap
HARDWARE- stereo signal->subgroup->mono out->filter->back into channel of mixer= huge phase- help!

Greg

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Message 2/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  01:14 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

k

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i'm a tad confused cos subgroups are usualy stereo - so why the mono send out?

also sending thru that chain and back is probably adding a Millisecond or two delay to that signal, hence the phasing when added to the original - why are you adding it back to original, wouldnt it be better to just use filtered signal only for that effect?

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 3/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  01:25 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

monkeybasket2001

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ah because my frostwave is only in modo so to retain the bass, bd and bongos i needed to run the mono from the stereo to get the sum of both sides-

the reason im tying to do this is that at some points i want the meat of the groove there with its highs and lows but with some quick sweeps across the mids with resonance- why? it sounded pretty cool despite the phasing....also at another point everything but the bass stops going through the filter which again needs to be layered over the original bass so i can realtime tweak it...

i could just not use it that way but i was sure i could get round this somehow...

greg

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Message 4/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  03:28 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

psylichon

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if any of your send/return cables are TRS balanced, you could pop them halfway out of the jack. It would basically act as a TS cable this way, but your signal will be flipped 180 outta phase which could work in this situation. Won't work with unbalanced interconnects though.

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Message 5/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  03:48 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

monkeybasket2001

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cheers psy....bugger it!! i need inserts on my subgroups- bah!!

thanks anyways...

greg

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Message 6/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  04:00 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

psylichon

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I know they also make analog boxes that allow you to "dial in" your phase shift. Other than awareness of their existence, I know nothing else about em.

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Message 7/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  04:06 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

monkeybasket2001

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ok, in terms of theory do you know if it should work- if it shouldn't ill stop worrying

inverted mono version of stereo loop mixed with stereo loop at -3db- will this phase?

greg

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Message 8/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  04:23 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

psylichon

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I don't think it's a matter of IF it will phase (all parallel processing will induce phase issues unless delays are properly compensated), but whether the phasing will be audible enough to be a problem. Only you can tell us.

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Message 9/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  04:28 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

monkeybasket2001

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yeah i agree with that- i guess what im saying is i dont understand phase when you mix mono and stereo- believe me if it sounds good ill keep it but i dont want to go to the trouble of building a reversed phase mono jack if it wont crack the problem-

greg

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Message 10/19                 Date: 14-Mar-05  @  05:58 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

milan

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ya... its quite possible that just reversing the signal by 180° wont solve the problem. theoreticaly you could use an analog phase shifter, but AFAIK those things are a) expensive and b) not very common i believe.

building a phase reverse cable aint all that complicated. just take a ballanced cable and re-wire the 2 pins on one side.

the perfect solution would be to record the dry and wet signals separately into the pc and line them up in a sequencer... but if you aint using one then you're stuck i'm afraid :/

regards, m.

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Message 11/19                 Date: 15-Mar-05  @  04:48 AM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

damballah

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little labs IBP allows you variable phase correction. I think you'd be really lucky if a straight polarity switch fixed this. isn't the delayed return gonna act like a frequency dependant comb filter?

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Message 12/19                 Date: 15-Mar-05  @  10:15 AM     Edit: 15-Mar-05  |  10:15 AM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

milan

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"isn't the delayed return gonna act like a frequency dependant comb filter?"

yes  

"The IBP analog phase alignment tool is available direct from Little Labs for $550"

 

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Message 13/19                 Date: 15-Mar-05  @  08:24 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

beds

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damn audio geeks.

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Message 14/19                 Date: 16-Mar-05  @  08:34 AM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

monkeybasket2001

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"The IBP analog phase alignment tool is available direct from Little Labs for $550"
>>>>>>>>>>

oooh ill have two then!!!

ive basically had to work around it- strange im sure ive heard the technique used before, guess its reserved for the pros...hehehe

greg

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Message 15/19                 Date: 18-Mar-05  @  01:41 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

monkeybasket2001

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i put an except here- although ive changed the structure now there should be in the middle an example of the phasing- also if anyone has any constructive balance/eq criticisms i would be most grateful....ive done this loop to death but im not sure if ive completely over done the bass

cheers

greg

edit: doh!too big- its where that link is....

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Message 16/19                 Date: 18-Mar-05  @  03:13 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

k

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greg, is that a 'max filesize' thing - I'm thinking toi bump it up beyond 10mb to a bit more (soundclick is closed for maintainance)

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 17/19                 Date: 18-Mar-05  @  03:22 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

milan

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beyond 10mb? lol... that'd be cool

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Message 18/19                 Date: 18-Mar-05  @  03:43 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

monkeybasket2001

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yeah would be way cool....hell 2 megs would do- equates to about 2mins mp3 time i believe- despite my tracks having mix issues i refuse to encode less than 128- :P

soundclick is down for maintenance? now theres a surprise- i secretly think 'maintenance' stands for song stealing- their 'hotness' alarm must have gone off when i uploaded the beat and they are now currently downloading it and packing it off as the next big thing.....or perhaps not

greg

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Message 19/19                 Date: 18-Mar-05  @  04:43 PM   -   RE: phasin' hell- im outta my depth.....

beds

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sign up here then innit. you can only post 500kb in the forum

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