Original Message 1/6                 Date: 20-Oct-03  @  11:02 AM   -   Key Shifting on Pioneer Gear

Brett Electric

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Hi there,

I'm helping out a friend of mine with the whole concept of key mixing. He has a pioneer DJM600 mixer, and a pioneer CDJ100 (and 2 Technics 1200). To correct key changes caused by upping the tempo with the pitch slider on the turntable, we've worked out how to use the key shifter on the mixer to shift the key back down, while keeping the tempo constant. The same can be done with the 'zip' function (+ hold) on the CDJ.

Only problem is, it sounds pretty bad. There is some sort of sound degradation going on there - kind of a fluttering, almost jittering effect. Is this just a side effect of the key shifting, or is my mate's gear stuffed (both the DJM600 and the CDJ)?

If anyone uses these functions, how far do you find that you can you shift the key while retaining some sort of sound quality?

Or is there some other piece of technology out there that can do the job better than Pioneer(I do realise that it is no easy simple task to shift key without affecting tempo - but technology keeps amazing me, so I'm just hoping).

Any experiences or opinions on this topic would be most appreciated.

Thanks, Brett.

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Message 2/6                 Date: 20-Oct-03  @  06:15 PM   -   RE: Key Shifting on Pioneer Gear

milan

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dont worry... they all sound crap when they do that.

only way to do it well is with software (how dj mix cd's are done, for example), but you can forget realtime in that case.

i dont think anyone uses it live anyway, unless i missed out on a large technological breakthru lately or something...

regards, m.

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Message 3/6                 Date: 21-Oct-03  @  03:52 PM   -   RE: Key Shifting on Pioneer Gear

Brett Electric

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Cheers Milan,

I appreciate the help.

This may be a stupid question, but what's the point of the key shifting you can't use it because it sounds crap? I'm not saying it's an easy thing to accomplish, but IMO, If you can't do it properly, leave it off. You don't see me trying to ice skate in the Australian Olympic team do you?  

Which softwares can do it well? - I have soundforge, and although I haven't had a really in depth play with that function, the times I have done so - there have been obvious artefacts in the sound.

Thanks for all your's times innit.

Brett.

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Message 4/6                 Date: 21-Oct-03  @  04:48 PM   -   RE: Key Shifting on Pioneer Gear

Brett Electric

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Cheers for the reply mate,

Good to know that the gear's not stuffed.

I guess I'll just wait 'till they get it perfected (I know it's possible - hey, we got a man on the moon!) before I invest in a DJ setup.

I'd be way more tempted to mix if I knew I could do it all in perfect pitch Mmmmm.... musical mixing (Really, it's not that easy to find 2 tracks with a similar mood or style, same key, and same BPM).

Anyway, I'd better get looking for them  

Thanks, Brett.

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Message 5/6                 Date: 21-Oct-03  @  04:52 PM   -   RE: Key Shifting on Pioneer Gear

Brett Electric

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Oh Shit, I replied twice,

How embarrassing!

And now this makes three times... crap!

I must be tired (and blissing out to some nice music) - I'm going to bed.

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Message 6/6                 Date: 11-Apr-13  @  03:39 PM   -   RE: Key Shifting on Pioneer Gear

salvifr

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The reason why the transposed track sounds "crap" (expecially when you lower the key) is because the algorithm tha handles the process is a real-time granulizer

http://forbidden-fruity.blogspot.it/2009/10/fruity-granulizer.html

quality pitch shifting algorithms can only operate in offline/bufferized mode introducing pre-processing latency, e.g. with software like Prosoniq Time Factory, therefore your "instant" deck play button wouldnt be instantly responding anymore

it's like the difference between a "live" autotuner and a "studio" one 

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