Original Message                 Date: 21-Jan-05  @  12:27 PM   -   sub grouping drum compression

Dominic

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When you guys sub group your drums to a stereo compressor are you really pumping the compressor so it shows like 9-12db of compression or more near the 3-6db? Probably depends on the tune but I'm talking about dancefloor stuff. My attack and release are always at the fastest cos that seems to pump a 4x4 groove the best. But kinda dunno if I'm killing my transients by working the compressor up to 12db worth of compression.

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Message 11/21                 Date: 28-Apr-05  @  02:23 PM   -   RE: sub grouping drum compression

k

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there'll be a fraction of course cos the signal has to go up cables into comp, thru comp and back to mixer, but it's fractional

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I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 12/21                 Date: 28-Apr-05  @  03:18 PM   -   RE: sub grouping drum compression

monkeybasket2001

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FRACTIONAL SOUNDS OK- MY QUESTION COMES FROM LOADS OF HOUSE HEADS RAVING ABOUT THE NEW YORK COMPRESSION TRICK (*@£$! caps!) but whenever i tried i got phase- they must have decent analogues to run this through rather than my very questionable dbx 266xl....i also have a cl-150 but its mono unfortunately...

greg

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Message 13/21                 Date: 28-Apr-05  @  04:10 PM   -   RE: sub grouping drum compression

k

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don't get it?... whats up with your DBX?.. it is analog

and how do you mean - you get 'phasing' - how? - in what way?

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 14/21                 Date: 28-Apr-05  @  04:33 PM   -   RE: sub grouping drum compression

monkeybasket2001

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ive again (as is my wont) probably confused things-

you know when you send a signal through an aux to en effect unit but dont send a completely wet signal back you get a kind of phasing/comb filtered sound when mixed with the original(i say phase cos i guess phases are cancelling- giving a slightly flanged/brittle sound)? well i hope so as its that sound im getting....the beat becomes thinner and certain freqs seems to be sucked up.....

sounds a bit like when you layer two sounds over each other or when you use very short delay times.....

i was thinking perhaps the dbx had some sort of circuit in there that enduces a delay causing the compressed sound to clash rather than mix with the original and that the only way to realign was to copy the dry and delay that by the same amount and then not use the original dry signal in the tune at all...BUT if the dbx is no different to any other analogue compressor in that respect i must be doing something at another stage to cause this issue- for the record it happens when i send signals via aux and dont have a 100% wet feeding back- so could be me......oh and the comps are fed lines as my subgroups have no inserts and im subbing the mixed drums and then feeding the sub via the comp back to a pair of mono channels (which are not going to the sub)

have you succcesfully done this in the hardware domain? f so what comp and what mixer were you able to achieve this with?

greg

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Message 15/21                 Date: 28-Apr-05  @  06:49 PM   -   RE: sub grouping drum compression

milan

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"you know when you send a signal through an aux to en effect unit but dont send a completely wet signal back you get a kind of phasing/comb filtered sound when mixed with the original(i say phase cos i guess phases are cancelling- giving a slightly flanged/brittle sound)? well i hope so as its that sound im getting....the beat becomes thinner and certain freqs seems to be sucked up"

ayup... you're getting analog phasing from somewhere.

"i was thinking perhaps the dbx had some sort of circuit in there that enduces a delay "

nope... not deliberately at least. it is however possible that compression induces a phase shift.

otr maybe like the others said, you just have a delay anyway bexcause of passing it to there and back. not sure if i ever tried combining dry and processed signal like that in analog domain so i'm not sure about that. only use inserts for compressing usually...

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Message 16/21                 Date: 29-Apr-05  @  02:40 AM   -   RE: sub grouping drum compression

damballah

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well, a compressor alters the envelope and can have an effect on eq which could have a cancelling as well as an enhancing effect, no.

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Message 17/21                 Date: 29-Apr-05  @  09:28 AM   -   RE: sub grouping drum compression

monkeybasket2001

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gotcha, cheers- i guess the comp settings im using are messing the phase up but its ok, its not something i can see as essential
(got by so far) would just like to have truied it out- will wait until i upgrade my mixer to one with inserts on the subs.

cheers

greg

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Message 18/21                 Date: 30-Apr-05  @  09:57 AM   -   RE: sub grouping drum compression

k

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yeah, but you dont send signals out via AUX's and return dry un-fx'd signals to the original - you dont use aux's for compressing signals - you use them for Additive fx

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 19/21                 Date: 01-May-05  @  05:41 AM   -   RE: sub grouping drum compression

psylichon

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yeah the proper way to do it i guess would be to somehow split the signal from your multitrack to a dry channel and a wet channel (the wet channel being the one with the comp on insert).

The method you're using should work fairly well as long as you're returning a completely "wet" signal on return (and I don't know of many analog compressors that have a "wet:dry" knob)

Anyways, keep on experimenting with different routings.... be creative.... it should work!

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Message 20/21                 Date: 03-May-05  @  11:04 AM   -   RE: sub grouping drum compression

monkeybasket2001

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nah i dont k, what i meant was the sound is similar to what you get when you do that with fx when you are first working it all out-... its the only sound i coudl approximate it too- i definitly dont use dry aux returns or even auxes for my compression...


psy that is a much better way of doing it, the sub way makes sense but onlyt if you have an insert on it...

cheers

greg

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