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Subject: reverb theory


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Original Message                 Date: 21-Sep-04  @  04:02 PM   -   reverb theory

Dominic

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So the bigger the room, what?

1. More pre delay
2. More decay
3. Less liveness
4. Less Attack
5. Less high frequencies and more low frequencies eq




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Message 11/25                 Date: 22-Sep-04  @  01:30 PM   -   RE: reverb theory

Dominic

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Logic 5.5 on a PC running Battery, Pro 53 and Absynth 2. Can't blame the tools then?



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Message 12/25                 Date: 22-Sep-04  @  06:14 PM   -   RE: reverb theory

k

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well why not just import a drum/rhythm loop from some track you like, then use the Logic quantise section to grab a midi quantise from the audio loop and use that to do your midi drum parts - copy basicaly until it becomes second nature to you.

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!



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Message 13/25                 Date: 23-Sep-04  @  09:45 AM   -   RE: reverb theory

Dominic

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Copying tracks IS all I do. Its not the writing of the tracks that's an issue K. Its the production. I can never seem to get my tracks pumping, kicking or have any depth. They always sound 1 dimensional when I compare them to the producers I rate. It can't be ALL about mastering surely? But I s'posse if it was easy then everyone would be doing it. Plus the fun bits getting there innit.



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Message 14/25                 Date: 23-Sep-04  @  10:18 AM   -   RE: reverb theory

k

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so ....how does it connect to your original question?.... you cant get the 'space'

reverb might not be the answer - btw - you are comparing your results to vinyls or CD's on the SAME system yes? - just wanna check it's not your speaker/amp combo for the lack of 'punch' issue.

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!



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Message 15/25                 Date: 23-Sep-04  @  11:23 AM   -   RE: reverb theory

Dominic

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Exactly K. This reverb thread relates to one of these 3 areas of my production problems, namely depth. I'm kinda thinking that if my reverbs represent the "sound stage" I should be able to use my reverbs to give the listener a sense of depth, eg I want my aquatic sounding pads to feel like they are in the distance compared to my snare and hi-hat. While a plate works fantastic for drums and percussion, it doesn't sound good over a pad. A big gothic hall sounds better over a pad but doesn't sit well with the plates - it doesn't sound cohesive enough and as if the drums and pads are coming from the same tune.

Yes I always rip CD tracks into my computer and then import the WAV into my Logic arrangement. One quick question though K………I want to be able to send program change messages to my MPX 500 so I plugged a midi lead going out of my AMT8 into the midi in of my lexicon but what track do I use in the arrangement window to send the program change message and do I have to set this up (as an midi instrument) in the midi environment page?



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Message 16/25                 Date: 23-Sep-04  @  09:37 PM   -   RE: reverb theory

craig

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I usually tend to use no more than 2 reverbs per track, unless I'm using something crazy for effect. I think it sounds more natural and it's much harder to wash out the track that way, with lots of competing reverbs.



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Message 17/25                 Date: 23-Sep-04  @  10:30 PM   -   RE: reverb theory

k

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tough one man cos it's so dependent on the material... I suggest using ONE reverb ...

perhaps try just doing excercises in depth - use the one verb and set it to a hall - more 'present' eq's (in the mid band 1-5k ish) bring thinsg forward, roll of the top and mid and things are less 'present' - add some verb to those to complete the illusion as a basic excercise.

if someone talks and backs away talking further and further as an experiment (try it with a mate in the park) the presense & top-end dissapears off their voice, the definition gets less and less

but delay is a very important tool cos it does delay to give depth and spacey-ness bbut can also create width... very very short delays panned one way and the instrument panned the other - create stereo spread, open up holes in the middle, add things into the hole etc

longer delays added very subtley and with 'some' reverb too creates alot of depth and spaceyness, but you gotta be subtle with the delay, not actualy really hear distinct repeats, the delay timing HAS to be right, and you can use less verb then... spaceyness doesn have to mean 'swamped in reverb


you can stop 'mushiness' by filtering the send signal to the effect unit, so the signal going to the reverb can have the bass-end shelved off subtley or dramaticaly... you could shelve off to remove deeper bass at around 110hz

do you ever solo the reverb bus in logic and listen to it alone? - anyways you can get glossy reverb with no bass or low-mid setup a signal to the reverb eq's in different ways and see the effect - like setup a send to Bus 1 in logic, add a 'FAT EQ' - THEN a reverb - setup a long verb and experiment with the eq

then add the delay on another bus and mix those two with the original, just like as a mess about I mean to see what you can see with those 3 items - one sound/VSTi, one eq/reverb bus and one delay bus, then just mess about



anyways, it's very dependent on the context, production decisions are so unique to each track, dont get obessed with depth.. which leads me to a question:

how's your mixes WITHOUT reverb at all?... or delay.. just raw and dry?

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!



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Message 18/25                 Date: 23-Sep-04  @  10:32 PM   -   RE: reverb theory

beds

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the sends in logic are mono, so when you pan, the signaly going to the reverb is still in the centre. this is gonna fuck your space up.

you want something to go back in the mix? #1 turn it down, take off some top and bottom, give it some reverb.

bring it forward? turn it up, give it some top and bottom, less reverb.

try it out with just 2 similar sounds, panned left and right.



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Message 19/25                 Date: 24-Sep-04  @  04:37 PM   -   RE: reverb theory

Dominic

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Good advise guys. And yes K, good point on delay aswell. Delay is fundamental for depth. I will give a go at just using 2 reverbs aswell.

K, my mixes sound Okish with just compression on the bass and kicks, sub group compression on my drums and sub group compression on my synths, then compression across the sub masters but………..this together with the writing of the tunes is about as far as I get. I try to use distortion and overdrive (in all the different forms of logics native plug-ins) but its just sounds too harsh (to me anyway). Apart from a bit of flange on the hi hats I'm not really sure what else to try on drums?

I worked out how to send program change messages to my lexicon. The idea was to load different patches into my lexicon as the tempo of my track changes to try and get all the reverb parametres in sync with tempo but it takes 3 seconds for the patches to load which means my parts had no reveb for 3 seconds which sounded crap so I binned that idea and just took an average of all the tempos Vs ms timings of decay parametres, pre delay, etc and compromised.



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Message 20/25                 Date: 24-Sep-04  @  04:52 PM     Edit: 24-Sep-04  |  04:55 PM   -   RE: reverb theory

SignalRunners - BLU

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what i do sometimes-

say you use many different reverbs like your doing now, but back off a bit on them a little and use 1 general reverb to send each part to overall-

i.e

Ill use different settings of/and reverbs on my audio tracks, getting everything sounding nearly there, but i pump the channels all out to 16 tracks on desk and have a hardware lexicon that i set-up , like k says, hall (medium whatever) which i send tiny bits of the reverbed audio tracks to , to gloss over the already partially reverbed parts, giving (hopefully) a cohesive mix.

I dont use sends in the sequencer however, i just sit plug ins straight onto tracks (pt) so i dont know how tricky this may be to do in your particular set-up.

works well tho!

blu



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