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Subject: Kick Vs Bass. Again.


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Original Message                 Date: 12-Mar-03  @  10:37 AM   -   Kick Vs Bass. Again.

Filthy McNasty

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How do you lot balance, mix and eq your kick and bass tracks. I read lots of stuff on the net saying that if you use a thick, heavy sounding bass then you have to use a toppy, acoustic sounding kick. Hmmm. I’m not sure about this. I can see where their coming from but none of my favourite producers seem to HAVE to do this on their tracks.

The second thing that really seems to annoy me is how all these articles say that if you “have to” use a heavy sounding kick, then you SHOULD ONLY play a bassline that doesn’t fall on any quarter notes (kicks). That’s rubbish. I don’t want to sound “trance” or proggy”.

Thirdly, all these articles across the WWW talk about viewing your mix as a jigsaw and finding “a pocket” for every sound. Now I can understand that but if the kick and bass occupy the same frequencies then what do you do? I have a Mackie desk so I’m stuck with a Lo eq of 80hz. I usually give both kick and bass a little 3db at 80 Hz boost. Now, my question is how do you guys eq the kick and bass in the low and hi mid area? I usually make a small cut at 250 Hz on the bass to try and make room for the kick. How do you guys work your kick and bass combinations?



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Message 11/30                 Date: 13-Mar-03  @  01:02 PM   -   RE: Kick Vs Bass. Again.

Filthy McNasty

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Kinda like that. But I have 24 outputs from 3 m-audio souncards coming out the PC and down the first 24 channels of me mackie desk. The whole reason I did this was cos I hate the sound of software eq. I think it sounds really glassy. My aim was to use the a hardware mixer to counteract the sound of software. It works well I reckon. Apart from the kick and bass eq. I don't use software verbs either. I use me 3 lexicons for that. Plus my compressors don't have a sidechain input. :-(



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Message 12/30                 Date: 13-Mar-03  @  02:15 PM   -   RE: Kick Vs Bass. Again.

milan

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oh well, if you've got a 24ch mixer, 3 deltas, and 3 lexicons, then i guess getting a couple of good eq units is not a bad idea seeing how you like o work with analog hardware and all. how about some s/h focusrite greens or some TLa's?



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Message 13/30                 Date: 13-Mar-03  @  03:21 PM   -   RE: Kick Vs Bass. Again.

Filthy McNasty

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Milan - do those eq's you mentioned sound ALOT better than Logic's natives? Still loving Logic's Tape Delay and Stereo Spreader though.



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Message 14/30                 Date: 13-Mar-03  @  05:18 PM   -   RE: Kick Vs Bass. Again.

milan

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mm... i couldnt swear on that one. thing is, i've used good quality harware in studios (though nothing esoteric like a pultec or anything), and with an exception of a really top end unit like a neve eq, i'm more likely to reach for a waves eq for some really fine work than an analog outboard unit. mind you, i'm talking about doing fine work like filtering out a very very narrow range of frequencies or something, which may or may not be what you want to do.

ok, lets put it this way:

if you want to do some fine work like i described and want a transparent eq, then i'd rather use software because a)most h/w units in mid price range arent well enough specified (that tla ivory has max Q of 5, whereas you'd need about 10 if you want to do some serious hairsplitting) and b) good enough units are bloody expensive.

if on the other hand, you want a musical sounding eq for some sound shaping then yes, i'd say that an analog parametric can perhaps beat a s/w unit, but you'll still have to choose carefully. tl-audio is decent, but nothing that will blow you away soundwise. focusrite greens also. there was an old TC eq which was also ok, if a little noisy if i remember correctly.

if you wanna know what i would do, well i'd stick to plugins really. they may not be mind blowing, but i doubt you'll be able to get better results without shelling out some serious dough.

anyway, there are few peeps here who have even more experience than me gear-wise and may pitch in a comment or two...

cheers, m.



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Message 15/30                 Date: 14-Mar-03  @  10:12 AM   -   RE: Kick Vs Bass. Again.

k

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so Filthy... do you record eveything to the pc and then play it back & mix thru the mixer.. Is your sound device setup all being generated by s/w or you have external synths/sampler etc?

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!



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Message 16/30                 Date: 14-Mar-03  @  11:03 AM   -   RE: Kick Vs Bass. Again.

Filthy McNasty

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K - never record into the PC. Only done one vocal session and it turned into a disater. The singer got really stoned and after about 20 mins got really paranoid. I did my best but she wasn't very good.

I use exclusively soft sythns for everything apart from bass. I use my virus for bass. Logics es1 and es2 sit ontop of the virus bass really nicely. Just seems to fit together nicely. Its taken me 3 years to finally arrive at a set up that makes me sound more like the producers I rate. I've gone through quite alot of different gear combinations but the single best decision I made was to go soft (apart from the bass). I sound alot better now plus its so faster to work.



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Message 17/30                 Date: 14-Mar-03  @  12:14 PM   -   RE: Kick Vs Bass. Again.

k

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so why cant you filter off the very bottom eq on the s/w mixer prior to eq-ing on the mackie externaly?



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Message 18/30                 Date: 14-Mar-03  @  12:59 PM   -   RE: Kick Vs Bass. Again.

Filthy McNasty

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cos the kick doesn't sound fat and warm when I use Logic's native eq's. It sounds a bit glassy and destroys alot of the thunk. Don't blame the user please :-)



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Message 19/30                 Date: 16-Mar-03  @  07:50 PM   -   RE: Kick Vs Bass. Again.

Pongoid

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filthy, dig it. Somebody said it before, I'll say it again. ONE: you need to make things that work together. If you are having such a hard time getting a certain kick and bass to work together...FUCK IT!!!!! Use other sounds....duh!?!?!. Don't be so precious about a single sound to the point where you have to obsess over making it work with another. Not all sounds work together, in fact MOST do not. Build a different patch that works better in context with what you are trying to do. If you spent a little more time on your synthesis, you might find how amazing filters, resonance, pulsewidth, detuning and all of these other parameters can be used to tune your tone, besides just giving it character.

Two....put an EQ in front of your compressor. It won't hurt you.

You're welcome.

Ape



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Message 20/30                 Date: 16-Mar-03  @  11:35 PM   -   RE: Kick Vs Bass. Again.

breakerbox

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hey guys.. how do you do the sidechain ducking compresser thing with cubase sx?



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