Original Message                 Date: 22-Sep-02  @  06:24 AM   -   can't decide...

psychofreak5000

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I'm wanting to get into sampling and music production but i don't know what kind of gear I should get. Is the Korg Electribe EM1 good for beginers? Any advice would be great.

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Message 11/56                 Date: 23-Sep-02  @  02:03 AM   -   RE: can't decide...

psylichon

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Let's not forget the mighty Korg Triton, under $2000.

If you're talking about an all-in-one box (though admittedly not geared towards trance/dnb/house electronica etc.) it's got THE BEST PRESETS on the market for everything else. If you're doing hiphop, it's perfect. But few people stretch the limits of that machine... it has excellent programmability.

Just wanted to throw that one out there. I dont' see many people recommending it, but it's a proven workhorse. But I'd still recommend software (you'll find you learn a lot more about production in general with s/w). But if you do decide to go h/w, you owe it to yourself to sit down for an hour with a Triton and see if its sound is for you. Good luck....

psylichon

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Message 12/56                 Date: 23-Sep-02  @  02:19 AM   -   RE: can't decide...

psychofreak5000

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$2000 is little bit too much for me. Anything cheaper that's a good all-in-one box? And I've used software samplers but I want something more hands-on.

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Message 13/56                 Date: 23-Sep-02  @  05:50 AM   -   RE: can't decide...

Scott Digweed

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Hi Psycho,

When I first started off, I had a cheesy Yamaha PSR-550M keyboard, that had instrument samples and a built-in sequencer. It was very convenient to write basic electronic music on. After a year or so, I wanted more power. That's when I started buying hardware synthesizers, samplers, etc, and using Cakewalk on my PC.

Translation: I think you'd be best off keeping it simple at first (one box or program at a time), getting your feet wet, then expanding when you need better sounds and power, and you're sure you want to go further with electronic music.

You specifically said you wanted to get into sampling, but you did not mention whether you have any experience with playing the piano or writing music.

If you have no such experience, my advise would be to go the route I did, and get a keyboard with built-in sounds and sequencer to start off. One option is the Roland XP-50 or XP-60 keyboards, which have built-in sounds and a sequencer. Then you could add a used Akai S-2000 or S-3000 to get into sampling.

The alternative, *if* you have a fast PC, is to connect a USB keyboard to your PC and use a software program like Rebirth or Reason. The advantage here is that you will have pro-caliber sounds for less money. But, there is a learning curve and the ever-present possibility of running into PC audio problems, which are a pain in the arse to solve. It helps to have a computer dedicated to just music, also.

That's just my $0.02.


Best of Luck,

Scott

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Message 14/56                 Date: 23-Sep-02  @  08:16 AM   -   RE: can't decide...

k

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ok two basic setups.

HARWARE
alesis mmt-8, cheap s/h mixer, cheap s/h delay X 2, cheap s/h multifx unit such as Zoom, a sampler and a synth such as a virus, nova, waldorf etc etc, plsu a keyboard, some midi leads & a cheap midi distribution box... that'll allow you to make tunes & play live - you can record the mixes into your pc and do whatever with them like burn to Cd etc.

SOFTWARE
a pc/mac running vst or logic or Sonar and a few VSTi freebie synths plus one main s/w synth like FM7 or something, and a s/w sampler such as exs24 or Halion or Kontakt etc... (there are freeware and cheapware s/w sampler too of course) - a special fast driver soundcard and a master keyboard and a few midi leads

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Message 15/56                 Date: 23-Sep-02  @  08:24 AM   -   RE: can't decide...

k

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well it's hard to say, but in many ways the s/w is more versatile in that there's alot you can do with the combination of h/disk audio and midi all in one plus the ability to use s/w fx which are so plentiful... but that's not everything, it's less reliable mebbe than hardware.... it's a hard descision, but whatever you decide (hardware or s/w) a sampler, sequencer and one decent multi-mode synth is enuff to get you plenty of options and a great sound with a mixer & some fx.

One thing is that your hardware stuff can always integrate into a s/w setup in the future because with these fast soundcards i mentioned now you can route your outboard sampler or synth into your onboard software mixer and add fx etc and mix it in with any s/w synths & audio tracks.

why dontcha d/load a demo of Orion and try that too... and mebbe try Reason... VST & Reason combined in one with Rewire is also a great starter system, very versatile.

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Message 16/56                 Date: 23-Sep-02  @  08:51 AM   -   RE: can't decide...

influx

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"One thing is that your hardware stuff can always integrate into a s/w setup in the future because with these fast soundcards i mentioned now you can route your outboard sampler or synth into your onboard software mixer and add fx etc and mix it in with any s/w synths & audio tracks. "

only thing is there you need a multi in card...

honestly...the power of a good soft setup cant really be rivaled at ALL...not cost effectively.

another thing...Im thinkin...I really dont think a sampler is so necessary in a soft setup, because in a program like Cubase SX or Sonar with in-place processing...you just drop your sounds into the arrange page and if you want to tweak em you just do it...no need for midi triggering really?

anyway...the one thing was...Id say hold off on the live idea for now..just because you otta focus on learning to put ideas together, engineer/mix, etc...before you are gonna have the material to 'play live'

BUT...if youre fully determined to do gigs, and you are the type that actually WILL do it, then its probably a good idea to have a mainly hardware based setup (but dont overlook the power of softsynths etc for sound generation/processing)

cool thing is...a program like wavelab...get it SCSI'd up to your PC, and you can bounce sounds back and forth...sample in your sampler, and then send it over to an editor (wavelab, soundforge, cool edit, wavesurgeon) tweak it..make who knows 10 different versions, then send em all back over to your sampler..>VOILA...ten new sounds to put in your arrangement

ME personally..I like looking at the screen...seeing a graphic display of the song structure, part placement, and note placement within those parts.

but theres also something to be said for the relative simplicity of a hardware sequencer...

tell you what...you really need to read the info that K has thrown together in the tech pages...

there is really no 'best' or 'right' way...and odds are youre gonna start with one thing and end up with another...its just the evolution of it all...

Ive been at this for about 5-6 years now and my setup has changed MANY times...

so...really..just dive right in...if you have some cash, do some research, and just try not to spend too much so you dont get stuck with anything

hardware is CHEAP right now, too...

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Message 17/56                 Date: 23-Sep-02  @  10:11 AM   -   RE: can't decide...

k

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he's right... s/w is so much cheaper and it's all inhouse, i still think a sampler is good for triggering sound, playing patches of sounds from strings to pizz and drums etc, but yes the audio tracks/functions in the main s/w sequencers now makes them excellent for audio working especialy for mebbe drum& bass etc doing custom beats, creating audio parts of those beats, doing cut-up's with those original audio parts etc etc... plus vocals of course if you decide to get into funky diva house or trance etc... there's a hell of a lot you can do in s/w that comes free with the sequencer but which would cost more in hardware, even simple things such as filtering loops or even filtering the whole damned track etc... in s/w the filters are all included and there's tons of freeware ones, and you can record and control those filtermoves and fine-tweak them on the tracks etc, but in hardware you'd need to buy a hardware equaliser, and then contrlling it in realtime would need a midi controlled filter otherwise it'd be live hands-on mixing etc... s/w is good!!

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 18/56                 Date: 23-Sep-02  @  05:51 PM   -   RE: can't decide...

errata

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Here's a different perspective, hehehe

I do almost all my work in hardware. This is because I've always had a focus on live music. I used to do sequencing with CW and then load my sequences into a HW sequencer. Now I just use HW.

My advice, spend time with other muso's. watch what they do, their various combinations and styles. And see which appeals... truth is your personality may decide the method, you just need to see various methods.

If you're just getting started and you do not have a big budget: Go SW, but get a HW sampler and an MMT8 for live preformance. A3Kv2 and an MMT8 will cost less than $800 (that's a high estimate)... then make music in SW on the PC and sample your loops for the show. If shows keep coming and you get more into live performance, you can think about the larger more comprehensive live rig!

e

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Message 19/56                 Date: 23-Sep-02  @  07:29 PM   -   RE: can't decide...

Scott Digweed

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Just a second there.

I understand where you're coming from e, this would be great for someone with experience of some sort.

But I don't agree with a complete newb getting a hardware sampler (especially the A3000...) right away. As a matter of fact, I strongly disagree.

Here's the reason why. I have a friend who asked me the a similar question two years ago: "I want to get into making industrial music, so I want a professional sampler to write some tracks".

Another stipulation: his computer was too old and too slow to run any software synths or samplers. Plus he is not good with computers, so upgrading was out of the question. And yet another requirement: it had to be cheap, about $600 or so.

So my challenge was to figure out which hardware box out there had everything built in that he needed to write tracks.

What it came down to was a used Ensoniq ASR-X. He had even seen one of his favorite bands using the X, so he was extremely biased towards it.

So he bought a used X, and I showed him the how to use it.

But it turns out the sampling was too much work for him, and he got tired of the small assortment of preset sounds.

He ran out of money and wasn't able or willing to upgrade it with a Hard Drive or get a Zip drive. So he couldn't save any samples. He no longer uses his X. His industrial music aspirations pretty much died. And I feel very guilty for not pushing him towards a keyboard with more built in sounds and keys...

To this day, he still laments over not getting the Triton, of which he loved the presets. But it was too much money, and still is.

So my advise still stands. A solid keyboard with a variety of bread & butter sounds built-in with a splash of modern electronic synth sounds, and a sequencer built-in. Expandibility, the ability to be used in a larger rig, with a computer, or live... a quality keyboard like the XP-50 or XP-60 is a GREAT way to start...

That's what I would tell my friend if I had a chance to answer the question all over again.

Here a few other keyboard options in the same vein with built-in sequencers:

Roland XP-50 <--- older
Roland XP-60 <--- newer with Techno expansion
Roland JX-305 <--- MC-505 with real keys
Roland DJ70-MKII
Korg Trinity
Korg Triton LE <--- top recommendation
Yamaha DJXII
Yamaha EX-5 or EX-7
Yamaha Motif
Quasimidi Sirius or Raven
Ensoniq ASR-10

Hope this helps. Let me know if I can be of further assistance. Please no viruses, people. :-)

Scott

synthysyzor@adelphia.net

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Message 20/56                 Date: 23-Sep-02  @  07:33 PM   -   RE: can't decide...

Scott Digweed

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umm, wut happened to the formatting there... (?)

you can still read the keyboards I listed. if not let me know, I'll email ya the info.


Scott

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