Original Message                 Date: 27-Feb-01  @  02:06 PM   -   BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE

ANALOGUE ALAN

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MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE SUBMITTING TOWARDS THE DARKSIDE. YES I'M TALKING ABOUT THE EVIL OF ALL EVIL'S, "THE DIGITAL DOMAIN"!
NOW LETS GET ONE THING STRAIGHT, I'M NO EXPERT PRODUCER, JUST A POOR MUSIC MAKER WHO WORKS IN HIS BEDROOM 5 DAYS A WEEK AND AS AN ASSISTANT ENGINNEER 2 DAYS A WEEK. BUT LIKE MOST OF YOU GUYS I'M QUIETLY PLUGGING AWAY LEARNING A FEW NEW THINGS EVERY COUPLE OF WEEKS AND HOPING TO MAKE IT ONE DAY. NOW'S THAT'S SORTED OUT, BACK TO MY POINT-BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DOMAIN !
TIMO MAAS, PEACE DIVISION, FUTURE SHOCK, 16B AND MOST OF THE OTHER TEC/TRIBAL/PROG PRODUCERS ALL OPERATE USING THE ANALOGUE FORCE (THE GOOD SIDE).
I,VE BEEN READING ABOUT SOME OF YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT DITCHING MOST OF YOUR OUTBOARD IN FAVOUR OF VST/LOGIC AUDIO AND ALL THOSE WONDERFUL PLUG-INS. DON'T DO IT UNLESS YOU WANT THAT THIN,CLEAN,LITE,UNWARM SOUND. LETS KEEP THINGS TUFF,DIRTY AND ORGANIC-ESPECIALLY DRUMS!
OK, SO SOME OF THE PLUG-IN EQ'S, GATES AND DELAYS ARE USABLE, BUT THE REVERBS,COMPRESSORS,DISTORTION BOXES AND CHORUS UNITS SOUND HORRIBLE. THEY SOUND TOO CLEAN AND LACK DEPTH.
THIS IS A CALL TO ALL BEDROOM PRODUCERS WHO ARE THINKING OF MAKING THE SWITCH, DON'T DO IT! I KNOW ITS TEMPTING, ALL THOSE PLUG-INS, THE AUTOMATION CAPABILITIES AND THE ECONOMIES OF AN ENTIRE STUDIO ON SCREEN.
BUT IF YOU WANT THE SOUND OF ALL THE TOP PRODUCERS THEN YOUR BEST TO STAY WITH AN ANALOGUE DESK, OUTBOARD COMPESSOR,GATES AND LEXICON REVERB UNITS. PLEASE GUYS STAY HERE ON THE GOOD SIDE, USE THE ANALOGUE FORCE AND REMEMBER, THE GRASS IS NOT GREENER OVER THERE!

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Message 11/41                 Date: 01-Mar-01  @  09:03 PM   -   RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE

r-tek

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so whats a "girlfriend" then? Are they analogue or digital?So ummm......anyway, so you`re saying I need to spend 900 notes on outboard in order for my tunes to sound good? I paid that for an 01v with the extra ins. Now I`m not dumb, I can tell the difference between analogue and digital and the digital stuff sometime lacks that certain something but the bottom line is, exactly how important is that from a bedroom producers point of view? My music sounded shit when I was using all analogue and now its likewise with a digital rig, if I was actually any good at this then it`d sound good no matter what. Only difference being how much more functionality I`ve got for my hard-earned now, I dont feel nothing like as held back as before trying to think my way round things all the time.

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Message 12/41                 Date: 02-Mar-01  @  12:19 AM   -   RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE

jp

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i'm bored so i'll bite. the following that alan
mentioned are digital: 2 160x mono compressors
(wicked on kicks and basses) and a Lexicon PMC
70. still, the mathmatics in the lexicon units are
great. i've got an mpx 500 and to me it does sound
better than reverb plug ins. i also have a k2000
which is also digital and it makes some
outragously warm bass. and i used to use it for
drums too, but now i've been working more with
reason for drums. i also have a juno 60 which to
me sounds better than the partialy digital 106 that
used to reside in my studio. what does all that
mean? i don't limit myself to analog or digital.
they're both valid means. and there are PLENTY of
top producers that use mainly digital. besides, alot
of "pro" tracks these days are multi-tracked audio
for final mixdown anyway. there are some sounds
that you can only get from analog gear (roland
space echo...mmmmmm)...but i wouldn't say the
whole studio, or even the majority of the studio,
should be analog.

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Message 13/41                 Date: 02-Mar-01  @  01:01 PM   -   RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE

BOO

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Mr JP, DBX 160x mono compressors are not digital, they are analogue units and they do sound fat.

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Message 14/41                 Date: 02-Mar-01  @  01:55 PM   -   RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE

ANALOGUE ANAL

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Hey r-tek, your saying that you think your tracks are not up to scratch and you feel fustrated. What do you mean, programming, mixing or everything? Maybe if you list the exact problems your having we can try and sort them out.
I know what its like, I sat in my bedroom for two years, getting really fustrated about why my tunes never sounded like the people I was listening to. It wasn't until I got a job in a studio making tea and doing shop runs that I really started to learn the tips and tricks and now I reckon I moved up to division 2. Maybe we can exchange some ideas. Oh and JP both dbx compressors (766 & 160x,s)I talked about are analogue, not digital. Take care.

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Message 15/41                 Date: 02-Mar-01  @  05:24 PM   -   RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE

syprik

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DBx 166Xl is even sweeter for the booming kicks  

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Message 16/41                 Date: 02-Mar-01  @  07:46 PM   -   RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE

jp

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well, i guess i'm talking out of my arse. i have a
166xl and i like the way it sounds. i guess i
thought it was digital 'cause it doesn't use a tube.
you sure it's not digital?

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Message 17/41                 Date: 03-Mar-01  @  01:52 PM   -   RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE

r-tek

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I appreciate the offer of help, but I`m doing ok really, I was trying to make a point more than anything. My musics definately not reflecting what I`m trying to do yet, but its getting there so I`ll just keep plugging away.Weird thing is, when I started I was always trying to make it ruff but never quite hitting hte mark, now I`ve changed tact to something a bit prettier sounding I can`t help but make it sound ruff. Bizarre.

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Message 18/41                 Date: 03-Mar-01  @  03:55 PM   -   RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE

Jez

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yeah it was the Red Sounds 'Dark Star' that was it...so you were there Mr Analogue Anal?
fuck me, small world..that was a great night. Ended up down there cos Home was a pile of shite.
I was the one behind the DJ booth trying to chat up Sarah Cox but getting shamelessly turned away...haha. Did you see her mate? She was mashed...I think she's going out with the guy from Futureshock...dunno though..ah who cares..


all I can say is that you must all have dollars cause I'm not going back to outboard FX now...I'm gonna get a new pc asap, sort out my latency problems with my soundcard and just covert all my midi to audio and use plugs...but then again my outboard was pretty poor in retrospect..I had a zoom 1201 and 1204 and an alesis 3630...I really liked the zoom's but their outputs were a bit too noisy..so once I had my track as a .wav file to be mastered I always ended up using denoiser and declicker plugs in soundforge to sort out the noise which got a pain after a while...with Timeworks reverb you get no noise and the quality of the reverb itself is top class...not to mention the compressor...so smooth. But then again most people have to pay for a package like that...

I'll be on miami beach in the summer with the money from my outboard gear...not.

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Message 19/41                 Date: 03-Mar-01  @  04:16 PM   -   RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE

ANALOGUE ANAL

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Hey r-tek, I didn't mean my offer of help to come across as condescending, I'm no expert. I am more interested in people's working methods. What sort of stuff are you making? I'm going for a techy sort of sound (but not tec house)that works in big rooms, a sort of cross between Futureshock and Starecase (from Bristol and recording on Hope Records). I'm trying for big sounding tunes with techno noises, no cheese. I use an AKAI MPC 3000 for my drums and while your limited to 96 ticks per quarter note, because there's no midi cables, USB ports, Midi expresses involved, it tends to sound quite tight as there's no time delay.ie when an event happens, thats when you hear it. How do you get your drum tracks going, do you use a dedicated drum module or samples? Also how do you get your groove going, do you keep 1/4 and 1/8 notes straight and just swing 16ths, 32's and triplets or do you pull beats 2 & 4 (ie snare hits) forward and move everything else accordingly. Lastly what are you using for bass, i'm a bit bored of my Juno 106 and would be interested in other peoples recommendations. Take care.

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Message 20/41                 Date: 03-Mar-01  @  04:25 PM   -   RE: BEWARE OF THE DIGITAL DARKSIDE

ANALOGUE ANAL

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Hey Jez, you seem to go out both nights every weekend. I hope your looking after your brain. What sort of stuff are you making? Finally has anyone got a clue how you make those reverse kick sounds you hear alot in Timo Maas records. I,ve tried reversing 50 different kicks but it still sounded weak. Am I reversing the right sound or is it short bass notes I should be reversing? Take care.

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