Original Message                 Date: 23-Feb-00  @  05:32 AM   -   I feel stupid...

stephenb

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Alright, time to swallow my pride and start asking some simple music theory questions. I've tried time and time again to learn, but lack of time and too much info not relevant to dance music always puts me off.

So take deep house/garage for example:

If I decide the key of a song, and want to make a bassline, what scale should I use - minor, major...what?

Should I bang out a bassline using the root and fifth notes? What rules do a simple bassline follow?

Once I know what key my song is in, how do I know what chords I can play with it?

Does house, or disco follow a chord progression?

I try not to let music theory ignorance get in my way, I'm still managing to churn out some nice house grooves, but time and time again it comes back to haunt me. So any theory tips relevant to making dance would be a welcome change. I just want some simple rules to point me in the right direction, I don't want to follow a dull formula, just lay down some rules that'd help or inspire me.

Hopefuly, any answers will benefit other people like myself who come from a dj'ing or more technical background.

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Message 11/22                 Date: 24-Feb-00  @  05:35 AM   -   RE: I feel stupid...

SB

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So far so good, but what about the choice between minor or major? Does it always equate to happy or sad? I have it in my head I've read somewhere that most house chords are minor - is this true?

The thing is, I've been making tracks for about two years now and every so often I seem to panic about theory. It's like I'm terrified that someone will listen to one of my tracks and say "that's out of key". I try to trust my ears, but I just need some knowledge to help me get the music out of my head and into a track. Basslines and riffs are not a problem (knowing the basics helps though), the nightmare is when I try to lay some chords on top...it's all starting to come together slowly though!

Again pardon my ignorance, but what's a tonic?

I know there's tons of music theory on the web, but none that directly relates to dance music.

"you choose the chords by playing only the notes in the scale"...out of everything I've read, nothing has been said on this! Well maybe it has, but was just written in such a mind numbingly boring way that I never picked it up.

Getting advice from other dance orientated musicians makes it so much easier to understand - cheers for your patience!

So much to learn, so little time...

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Message 12/22                 Date: 24-Feb-00  @  10:08 AM   -   RE: I feel stupid...

k

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caspar, are U using a mac netscape 4.6 or 4.7 browser?.. it is bugged to fuck and useless... the grid displays fine

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Message 13/22                 Date: 24-Feb-00  @  12:45 PM   -   RE: I feel stupid...

damballah

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F$#@ ME! The orange is showing up today on my work Mac's Nutscape. F'ing weird!

The tonic: The thing you mix with the gin ~ . If you're piece is in A, then A is the tonic, or the I (one).

Are you building your song around a chord progression? Are are you wanting to use chord stabs? You can do a chordal melody by putting your melodic line on top and harmonizing underneath it. Maybe a variation on or something that responds to your bass line?

Sometimes it's the "wrong" notes that give the tension or the dissonance that contrasts with the "right" notes. Some jazz player, I forget who, said something to the effect of if you play one wrong note, play it three or four more times emphatically and people will think you meant it. It's OK to know what the right notes are as long as you're not handcuffed by that knowledge.

Be careful of over-harmonizing things, too. Sometimes transposing something around so the tonal center moves around can sound better than making sure all the notes conform the the key you've "decided" that the work is in. Revert to saved! There's songs that are all dominant seventh chords, no straight triads, no minors where they should normally be, and if done right, it rocks.

And don't feel stupid. You never stop learning or progressing as long as you keep trying.

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Message 14/22                 Date: 24-Feb-00  @  06:08 PM   -   RE: I feel stupid...

sitarsong

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Yes. Don't feel stupid. Damballah put it aptly.

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Message 15/22                 Date: 24-Feb-00  @  06:59 PM   -   RE: I feel stupid...

the dude etc

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another thing to consider is is the inversion of the chord. meaning a c major chord is with no inversion is just c e f, but with one inversion its e f then thenext higher c, after two inversions its f e c then three inversions would take you up an octave. kinda stupid , but also kinda useful i guess.

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Message 16/22                 Date: 24-Feb-00  @  07:39 PM   -   RE: I feel stupid...

p.

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being a tight ass, but capsar and daisuke both played minor scales, just theoretically slightly different. caspar's is a harmonic minor scale and daisuke wrote a melodic minor scale. anyhoo, about the minor vs major thing, don't give it another thought. if yer ear likes it, do it. remember, theory spawns from convention, it doesn't define it tho. if you're really into learnin ideas behind bass lines for house, i'd recommend pickin up some old disco and funk, figuring out the key a song is in and trying to learn the bass lines(this will help train your ear which will in turn help your writing and your ability to get out what's in your head). i don't mean learn to play bass, i mean be able to hum the lines and know what notes they are in relation to the key of the song. which brings me to another point, it'll really help your playing if you can figure out progressions in other house, disco or funk tunes. trust me, if you can hear the chords in other peoples songs, you can utilize those ideas.

so bout the bass lines: 1-4-5 and b7 are always good for bass lines. also important are "pick up" notes, that is, usually a note a 1/2 step above or below the note your playing on the beat (pick up notes are usually 1/8 or 1/16 notes). they're used to give movement to the bass lines.

-p.

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Message 17/22                 Date: 25-Feb-00  @  10:14 AM   -   RE: I feel stupid...

daisuke

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To recap:
I would bet my minor scale was wrong, a stupid typo got in the way. My mistyped version is C D Eb F G Ab Gb, should be C D Eb F G Ab Bb. Like "p" said: a melodic minor scale. to get melodic u "flatten" 3rd, 6th and 7th note of the scale. To get the harmonic one you "flatten" only the 3rd and 6th note. Just correct me ya guys if this is wrong. I'm a newbie also. ;)

And back to the bassline issue, check:

http://www.harmony-central.com/Bass/Articles/Running_with_the_Bass/00index3.html

bye

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Message 18/22                 Date: 03-Mar-00  @  03:35 PM   -   RE: I feel stupid...

99devils

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My guitar teacher likes to say that if you play a dischordant note only once, then it's a "wrong" note. If you play it more than once, it's simply a dissonant chord ;-)

Your ears are the best guide.

-Craig

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Message 19/22                 Date: 11-Mar-00  @  07:36 PM   -   RE: I feel stupid...

opus636

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You look stupid ! and your mother dresses you funny!:-)

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Message 20/22                 Date: 13-Mar-00  @  12:03 PM   -   RE: I feel stupid...

SB

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Hey! I'll have you know my mother's got great taste in boys clothes...

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