Original Message                 Date: 08-Jan-01  @  12:02 AM   -   that Maasive timo groove

panashift

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i'm trying to get my drums and percussion to get that wet, funk groove present in tracks by people like timo maas, jark prongo, peace division and the like. but, my tracks are only slightly funky, without the big swing these tracks have. i've tried using the swing settings, setting my dbx comp to 'suck' the sound (fast release, slow attacks, 6:1+), but i can't do it, it sounds stompy, not deep and grooved. is it eq? setting the groove up in a matrix editor (i use logic)? compression? resonance? aaaaaaargh, it's really pissing me off! I have the usual set up (samp, mac, logic audio, comp, mackie desk)m so i don't think i'm missing stuff, just missing a trick somewhere.... go on, lend a hand!!

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Message 11/18                 Date: 31-Jan-01  @  11:06 PM   -   RE: that Maasive timo groove

k

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http://ftp.bbc.co.uk/radio1/media/artists/timo_maas/ubik.ram

http://www.icrunch.com/stream.m3u?i=timomaas_der_schieber_radio_edit

http://www.icrunch.com/stream.m3u?i=timomaas_funkin_for_hope_in_ny_mix

like that?... it's deep, it's got latin crossovers, and much little touches and subtleties... the best advice is to checkout as much world beats as possible, nothing obscure, just regular world beats, especialy samba cos it's a mix of latin & african all in one, alot of the 'marching' feels are in it....

also checkout how the bass underpins the kik with some offbeat notes to make the pumping part but it compliments of course the rise in the hats & clack & other percussion sounds ('Der Schieber' (Rapid Eye Remix)) - and always there is this layered -da-d-da - da-d-ad triplet in the drums and synth riff's - a skip -

on 'Der Schieber' (Radio Edit), you got an absolute square up-hat & kik, boom-tish... over that is the offbeat with a shaker... d-d-da - d-d-da - d-d-da..... the synth riff follws this.. the velocity gives it the lilt on the offbeat with the hat is like a little rounded congo sound like a ringing wood-bucket doing the offbeat with the open hat... boom-da - boom-da - boom- didle-oom-da - :-) - etc...

there's about 6 layers of hats shakers & riddim over the hat-slice & kik (boom-tish) before the drums hit - at the breakdown/end, that sound like a pattern being triggered from a loop-start shows the offbeat phrase pattern revealed which is the last layer pushing the feel besides the synths - innit? - all i can say is if youi just study some basic african & s'american drum & music styles & carribean... there's all your patterns & feels then when you think in those patterns, you can hear them over anything, and flow with your beasts. - it's all about what you listen too... listen to the source materials and not try to hear this stuff happening hidden inside a dance track where it sounds mysterious...

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Message 12/18                 Date: 01-Feb-01  @  10:27 PM   -   RE: that Maasive timo groove

s

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well said.  

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Message 13/18                 Date: 13-Feb-01  @  10:22 PM   -   RE: that Maasive timo groove

phippsjess

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I asked Timo Maas this exact question at The Gallery, Turmills on Friday 28th January 2001, where my friend was DJing.
He was unwilling to go into alot of detail, but what he did say was he uses Logic Audio Platinum, only analogue gear, tons of compression and one of the best producers/engineers in Germany.
I also agree with other respondents to this question. It takes years of practice and experience. If you listen to Peace Divisions first track on Low Pressings, nearly three and a half years old, it is extremely basic (only 11 drum parts). Look where they are now!

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Message 14/18                 Date: 13-Feb-01  @  10:27 PM   -   RE: that Maasive timo groove

k

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doh fuck me, so he doesnt even produce his own tracks then?.... sad. - wonder what his 'top produers' would do with your midifiles?

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Message 15/18                 Date: 13-Feb-01  @  11:14 PM   -   RE: that Maasive timo groove

Jez

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great advice K!
I made a point of listening to the regular african drummers in Leicester Square today on my lunchbreak and it was so interesting how they built layer upon layer and crossed over poly-rhythms..though it was freestyle so I don't think they had a structure figured out...

anyway, I wish I had my mini disc on me to be honest to sample them....I was hypnotised...nothing better than the real thing.

it was funny cos I was chatting to Terry Francis at Fabric on Saturday night and he told me he always uses a multi-band compressor on his stuff and gates his snares..he said it was best to compress drums individually...it also says how to use compression in the mix in the new Computer Music mag which is worth checking out (for once!)...he'd never even heard of an Alesis 3630 so I was a bit gutted..

he said that at the end of the day his engineer does that sort of stuff for him but over the years he's picked it up...he says he'd never have figured it out himself..

I don't think we would have without a site like this to be honest!

he did say also that it is a complex combination of adjusting the correct velocities and LFO attacks and releases etc...along with the compression...if you just have a dry and linear drum pattern going (i.e Rebirth synced with Cubase) with a compressor over the whole mix you won't get such a pumping effect...

therefore it takes a lot of intricate programming and careful listening to get things pumping in that certain way...

I think your looking for more of a deep house groove than a hard techno one though Timo Maas sort of blends a lot of styles which is the current trend with progressive house being big and all that...I think theres a lot of difference between each genre of house and techno when it comes to compression..

buy something on Drop records and something by the Liberator DJ's..and a speed garage tune and the use of compression for each style is very different...

at the end of the day there is no 'rule'...like Terry said:

'as long as it sounds alright do it'...

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Message 16/18                 Date: 15-Feb-01  @  02:25 PM   -   RE: that Maasive timo groove

Jasper

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use your sounds reversed as well, not mutch, just enough to take the edge off the sound as it starts. like say you have a snare on the 2nd beat, you'd copy it, reverse it and place it about 1/16th behind the beat. have it cut off as the main sound plays and then move it closer to the beat to alter the feel. now do it with other sounds like hats etc and hopefully a static rythm should have a bit more feel to it without even going into swings etc, if you listen to great swing/dance beats you can hear a lot of this stuff going on really low in the mix.

of course it don't really start to groove until the sounds are working well together and the whole thing is compressed a bit.

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Message 17/18                 Date: 16-Feb-01  @  03:38 PM   -   RE: that Maasive timo groove

phippsjess

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Jez, I agree! But its best to compress individual drums then group them and compress them again. Don't forget to compress the whole mix.
Anyway there are hardly any DJs (apart from BUSHWACKA!) who produce their own tracks.
And another thing all this prog/tribal house is boring, its just drums, there's never any music in it.
Prime boring candidates are Steve Lawler (Yawn), Lee Burridge, Craig Richards and most of the old men Fabric DJ's.
To me the most exciting, cutting edge DJ's are Danny Howles, Sister Bliss, Timo Mass and Alison Marks. They actually blow the roof off and play records that have cutting edge music in them and make the girls dance. I won't see you at Home!

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Message 18/18                 Date: 16-Feb-01  @  06:28 PM   -   RE: that Maasive timo groove

Jez

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no you won't see me at Home cos I've never been there and never plan to cause it's a shit club full of champagne swigging media gimps listening to commercial 'trendy' crap!....my 18 year old brother goes there on a friday night...that place was just so overhyped that people just started cussing it...

'the old men fabric dj's'...haha..I spose they are really..

I think Craig Richards is a great DJ and largely plays some really experimental deep house and techno tunes that no-one will play...no cheese..he plays stuff really slow which is perfect at 3am when you're spaced out and comin down...I would'nt get into his stuff if he played at 11...

yeah deep house and tech/house has a different vibe to prog house...it's mostly more about a steady groove and attitude than building a set to a peak...

anyway mate..stop slaggin and give us some tips! DJ's only play records at the end of the day so who gives a fuck about em?

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