Original Message 1/15                 Date: 22-Sep-05  @  09:46 AM   -   mixing piano...mono or stereo?

Dominic

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Mixing Piano&&&&&and whether to have it in mono or stereo? When I have it in stereo and hard pan the desk pots left and right - it sounds bigger but obviously I lose central definition. When I have it in mono it takes up the centre nicely but sounds a bit weak. How do you guys mix a piano in with panned guitars, stereo pads, etc? Is there a trick like having the main signal in mono then sending a separate stereo signal to another 2 faders compressed or something along those lines to get the centre defined but still create a sense of space across the stereo spectrum?

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Message 2/15                 Date: 22-Sep-05  @  10:58 AM   -   RE: mixing piano...mono or stereo?

milan

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all of the above i guess, depending on whats needed. if its a rhythmic track going through the whole song, then i'd probably pan it like maybe 10 & 2 o'clock, in order to get some stereo effect yet keep it focused. you could then add a wide reverb low in the mix if u want to make it sound more interesting.

like everything else, it depends on the song and its place in it really. i could also see it being panned hard L-R but sitting low in the mix for example.

oh and whats this "When I have it in mono it takes up the centre nicely but sounds a bit weak"? did you record it with mics or is it a midi thing? if it was recorded, you possibly have some phasing issues which make it lose low freq's. maybe you could look at the audio file and see if thats the case. or maybe a tad of low end eq is all you need?

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Message 3/15                 Date: 22-Sep-05  @  01:35 PM   -   RE: mixing piano...mono or stereo?

k

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yeah cos usualy a 'stereo' piano is some of the top and some of the bottom of the keyboard merging with either side, you can have your piano in mono , eq out a little mid to make room for guitars so they dont both overload the mid freq's and then some ambient verb can spread the piano at the edges, compression to is important fr the piano make it sit right but have the required attack etc

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Message 4/15                 Date: 22-Sep-05  @  02:21 PM   -   RE: mixing piano...mono or stereo?

Dominic

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Cool - cheers gents. So we're saying keep the piano in mono. Some articles on the web say that I could have it stereo like when the player is sitting at the instrument - so Left hand side (bass keys) on the left and the higher keys of teh piano scale on the right. Mines a midi evp88 piano.

Been listening to The Game album at lunchtime and most of the piano tracks seen to be mono panned dead centre.

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Message 5/15                 Date: 22-Sep-05  @  02:33 PM     Edit: 22-Sep-05  |  02:38 PM   -   RE: mixing piano...mono or stereo?

beds

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if it's just some guy singing at a piano or some classical solo piano then pan the bastard wide as you like.

in a fuller mix, then bring it in a bit, if not the whole way. then add some stereo verb or subtle delay. if you're going for a live sounding mix like a band thing and your piano is some stereo patch or recorded stereo, mono the piano, watch out for phase and pan it where you like.

i sometimes have the piano doubling the bassline, then i'll have two piano parts, the bass one all mono and not much verb, if at all, definately eq the bottom out, then the other part, say a high tinkly bit with lots of verb, pan it so it's more center and narrower, depending on how far apart the top and bottom notes in the part are.


evp88? make it mono and send it through an amp sim with vibrato, autopan, phaser and a delay.

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Message 6/15                 Date: 22-Sep-05  @  03:01 PM   -   RE: mixing piano...mono or stereo?

Dominic

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Thanks Beds. So you're saying to send it to a bus - mono that bus and keep it dead centre but still coming out of 2 soundcard channels or send it to a mono bus and hard pan it within Logic so the signal only comes out of one soundcard channel? I can do stereo verbs cos i have hardware lexicons. Gotta do all the other fx in Logic though. Oh apart from O/D - got a quality pedal after Milan posted a tip about a year ago and love bringing the pedal output down the desk and eqing to taste.

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Message 7/15                 Date: 22-Sep-05  @  03:35 PM   -   RE: mixing piano...mono or stereo?

monkeybasket2001

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some tips from the bobby owsinski mixing book....

simulate a room verb for a piano use delay- 211ms and 222ms on either side....

this guy (and his interviewed mixers) says they use panned delays- ie dry coming 10oclock, delayed version coming out at two o'clock- the delay creating a sense of space- can work well...

another tip is to mono check- use the mono sum so you can hear your mix in mono- turn the pan knob until you hear the element dissapear or jump out- its worked for me on high hats- might give you an idea of where to put the dry line....mirror it on the other side with a short delay...

greg

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Message 8/15                 Date: 22-Sep-05  @  04:32 PM   -   RE: mixing piano...mono or stereo?

Dominic

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Oh I like that tip. Thanks Greg. Gonna try dem all tonight yeah and see wot one is milly yeah. Den I is gonna speech you lot friday and we can all shizzle my nizzle.................


Seriously though - thanks everyone.

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Message 9/15                 Date: 22-Sep-05  @  04:44 PM   -   RE: mixing piano...mono or stereo?

beds

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i'm not going anywhere near your nizzle.

and i dunno about outboard and patching etc i do it all in the computer innit.

but basically in logic i'd stick a phaser, autopan and amp simulator insert on the evp (free one from voxengo) then a send to a dub delay like logic tape, maybe a autopan on that as well (if your gonna use both make them musically interesting). only coz i like my rhodes like that mind you.

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Message 10/15                 Date: 23-Sep-05  @  05:21 AM   -   RE: mixing piano...mono or stereo?

Pongoid

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Panned hard right and left. Are you mixing in headphones or something? Course you're gonna have some interaction in the center, what are you on about? Mono piano? Don't be daft. It's a total waste of the beautiful tonality that instrument offers to bung it mono. The stereo behaviour's one of the reasons it sounds nice in the first place.

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