0  |  skin: 1 2 3  | Login | Join  | 

Audioindy.com

Mail discussion to a friend Search forums House rules Live chat Login to access your admin About 7161 forums Forum home New Topic

Forums   -   Mixing & FX

Subject: sub grouping drum compression


Pages: 1 2 3


Original Message 1/21                 Date: 21-Jan-05  @  12:27 PM   -   sub grouping drum compression

Dominic

Posts: 1128

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file



When you guys sub group your drums to a stereo compressor are you really pumping the compressor so it shows like 9-12db of compression or more near the 3-6db? Probably depends on the tune but I'm talking about dancefloor stuff. My attack and release are always at the fastest cos that seems to pump a 4x4 groove the best. But kinda dunno if I'm killing my transients by working the compressor up to 12db worth of compression.



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 2/21                 Date: 21-Jan-05  @  02:34 PM   -   RE: sub grouping drum compression

damballah

Posts: 1675

Link?: Link

File?:  No file



do the things that should crack still crack? if your attack's too fast that's what you'll lose.



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 3/21                 Date: 21-Jan-05  @  03:51 PM   -   RE: sub grouping drum compression

Dominic

Posts: 1128

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file



but keep the fastest release yer?



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 4/21                 Date: 21-Jan-05  @  04:14 PM     Edit: 21-Jan-05  |  04:15 PM   -   RE: sub grouping drum compression

psylichon

Posts: 4573

Link?: Link

File?:  No file



stereo drum compression can be tricky. It really depends on the tune how much "pump" you want, but I generally am sucking between 3 and 6 dB out of the drums. Usually I start with a crazy low threshold so it's riding the compressor fully. then, with the fastest release, I slow down the attack until the kick and snare are popping as I like (you may need to pull the threshold back up a bit while you do this). Once I got the frontend of the waveform happening, I slow down the release so it fits with the tempo of the music. Often times, the fastest release gives you the most "in your face" sound, but can make the drums a bit overpowering. At this point, I raise the threshold to the point it sounds best. Gotta use your ears!

For dance music, often times the kick will be too prominent to send to the drum compressor full on at the level you want to hear it in the track. With all the low-end EQ gain you're probably doing, it will rob headroom and suck the life out of the rest of the drums. When this happens, I use an aux send or cloned track to send to the compressor with the rest of the drums. The main kick, which has its own compression (maybe compressed together with the bass), goes to the main buss. That way, you still get the "suck" when the kick hits, but you can control how much with the "ghost kick" clone track/aux send thingy. Just be VEEEERY careful of phase alignment when you do this. Plugin delay compensation can't always keep up with these kinda of routings. Again... use yer ears!



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 5/21                 Date: 21-Jan-05  @  04:37 PM   -   RE: sub grouping drum compression

Dominic

Posts: 1128

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file



Thank you psy. What a superb answer. Very clearly expalined.



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 6/21                 Date: 22-Jan-05  @  08:25 PM   -   RE: sub grouping drum compression

psylichon

Posts: 4573

Link?: Link

File?:  No file



Well, i'm trying to work on explaining concepts like these in case i ever get a teaching gig. Here's another post on compression I made recently on the Sonar forums that I thought was well put, if I do say so myself.

The main thing to ask yourself when faced with the "should I compress?" question is "will it make it sound better?"

The way I see it, compression falls into three main categories:

Transient manipulation: This is when the attack and release settings are used to drastically alter the waveform of the incoming material. Mostly used with drums and bass with slow attack and fast release to make them "punchy" or "pumpy"

Leveling: This is using a compressor as you would your hand on a fader, riding the material so that the quiet parts aren't quite so quiet and the loud parts aren't so loud... reducing the dynamics (which a compressor always does, but in this case, you're trying to do it unnoticeably, with little distortion to the original waveform shape) slow attack and release, gentle ratios, soft knees, and make up gain are the key ingredients to this function.

Gain: This is what your mastering limiters (read: fast compressors) are trying to achieve. High threshold and fast attack/release times catch just the most transient of material, allowing you to brickwall headroom-robbing peaks and bring up the entire program to make the apparent level louder without clipping. This is usually only done in mastering, though it can be nice for certain elements in mixtime.

As you learn and experiment more with compression, keep these three main ideas in mind, and they will help you decide if compression is really required for any particular situation.

"Do I need to change the 'punchiness' of this sound?

"Do I need to smooth the dynamics of this track?"

"Is my track loud enough?"

something to keep in mind when asking "does this compressor improve the sound?" is the fact that louder almost always sounds better. Almost all compression, when makeup gain is applied, increases the apparent volume of your material. You need to A/B with an apparent-level-matched version of the uncompressed signal to truly determine if you're making it sound better through compression, or just louder.

Often times, it simply sounds better uncompressed, so why do it?



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 7/21                 Date: 23-Jan-05  @  02:31 AM     Edit: 23-Jan-05  |  02:37 AM   -   RE: sub grouping drum compression

S1GNALRUNNERS - BLU

Posts: 1011

Link?: Link

File?:  No file



prolly totally the wrong way but i found thru experience that for 4/4 stuff your gonna not want to group the hi-hats with the kicks (although im sure ive read a million and one times your meant to, anyhow....)

to take of that crap crack ofg a fresh open off beat hat your gonna want the gnarliest compressor u can find and haev fastest attack possible with long release and take the snap out it, using it almost as a n eq to take the bite away. You may haev to try a few diff compressors till u find a good aggressive fast one (there is one that everyone and there dog uses  ) Sure it may sound rocking un-comped in your home studio but try it across a huge sound system in a heaving club and youll haev people covering there ears in pain, same goes with crashes - even more so now with cds getting spun, whereas vinyl kinda softens it up a bit and makes it more bareable and lets u away with it a bit- cds/digital is a definate no no.

Do what u like with the other stuff, groupwise, but try usinga diff setting for the crashes, and open hats

hope this helps!

Blu



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 8/21                 Date: 27-Apr-05  @  02:56 PM   -   RE: sub grouping drum compression

monkeybasket2001

Posts: 399

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file



can anyone tell me (and yes this another one of my goony/hardwarecentric/why-cant-i-sound-pro-on-nonpro-gear? questions)

how i can get round or calculate the delay i get when comping a subgroup so when i mix the supercompressed version back in they are not phasing?

i could take a copy of the original beat, delay it and then use that to mix in but dont know how i could calculate the amount of offset i need....i know i know- i should get a pc, get logic and use that but i dont have the cash...

greg



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 9/21                 Date: 27-Apr-05  @  05:43 PM   -   RE: sub grouping drum compression

milan

Posts: 5701

Link?: Link

File?:  No file



wait a minute... werent you using analog gear? where does the delay come from?

if its from a h/w unit, i think you cant know the delay w/out recording both versions in parallel and comparing them.



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Message 10/21                 Date: 28-Apr-05  @  09:27 AM   -   RE: sub grouping drum compression

monkeybasket2001

Posts: 399

Link?:  No link

File?:  No file



sorry when i said analogue i meant not digital but dont think my dbx 266xl is actually analogue- there is a very slight delay- i only know by running the wet and dry side by side and i can hear the phase...time to smpte my pc up i think...

so with a pure analogue compressors there is no delay?

greg



[ back to forum ]               [quote]

Pages: 1 2 3

There are 21 total messages for this topic





Reply to Thread

You need to register/login to use the forum.

Click here  to Signup or Login !

[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]



Back to Forum