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Subject: Bass. EQ Roll off.


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Original Message 1/13                 Date: 05-Mar-03  @  08:16 PM   -   Bass. EQ Roll off.

Boo

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I keep hearing from some people that they tend to rip out the last 20hz downwards...

Good idea? Bad idea?

I keep hearing conflicting info.



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Message 2/13                 Date: 05-Mar-03  @  08:21 PM   -   RE: Bass. EQ Roll off.

psylichon

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I tend to lowcut my basses as much as I can without making the lowest notes disappear... never higher than 30 Hz though. I'll use a lowcut filter with a high slope (like the Waves Renaissance EQ) to preserve as much of the good bass as I can. Usually, without filtering, the lowest notes tend to stick out in volume. They can even overdrive your compressor threshold and acually make the bass track too squashed and quiet. Use your ears and a pro recording with good bass.

psy



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Message 3/13                 Date: 05-Mar-03  @  09:22 PM   -   RE: Bass. EQ Roll off.

milan

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yeah, its basically just removing unheard/harmfull frequencies, hopefully allowing for a bit more headroom. where you cut depends on how low your bass goes and how steep your filters are.



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Message 4/13                 Date: 05-Mar-03  @  10:02 PM   -   RE: Bass. EQ Roll off.

Boo

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So, You're saying roll off 30 Hz with a tight(ish) Q?



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Message 5/13                 Date: 05-Mar-03  @  10:21 PM   -   RE: Bass. EQ Roll off.

psylichon

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I said use your ears. I gave 30Hz as a guideline. Like Milan says, it depends entirely on your program material.



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Message 6/13                 Date: 06-Mar-03  @  12:58 AM   -   RE: Bass. EQ Roll off.

Boo

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Ok, those 'ear' things again. I hear a lot about them on these forums...

 

Maybe I should get a pair?



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Message 7/13                 Date: 06-Mar-03  @  05:48 AM   -   RE: Bass. EQ Roll off.

psylichon

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it's just that all audio advice can only be rules of thumb. The real rules bend and shift and are determined by what sounds good. And to analyze that requires an aforementioned set.



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Message 8/13                 Date: 06-Mar-03  @  01:40 PM   -   RE: Bass. EQ Roll off.

k

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sometimes it's a good idea to shelve off lower frequncies BEFORE compressing things, but also filtering out top-end might have some effect too - the comp' will respond to the full freq' range it 'listens' to via it's side-chain, and although you might not be able to hear those frequencies, they will effect the compressors dynamic's where it processes the frequencies above the inaudible range

(when I say inaudible I mean lower frequencies that might be masked audibly by a stronger more emphatic mid/top end of the sound... the bottom end is still there, effecting the compressor but you hear the efect it is having predominently in the more audible frequencies.

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Message 9/13                 Date: 06-Mar-03  @  07:59 PM   -   RE: Bass. EQ Roll off.

Pongoid

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yeah, the whole bass notes vs. compressor thing is an artform completely into and of itself. What it will take most is really playing with your compressor to find out what particular sounds/frequencies are making it trip at any particular moment in the tune. Sometimes it's a bass note (in fact frequently, as bass takes up a lot of energy in a mix to obtain audibility) sometimes it's a snare, or a cymbal.


Also, like k was getting at, different frequencies stacked on top of one another can also make your compressor trip, so it's really a case of playing with each individual note in the mix at any particular time at first to get a feel for what your compressor's settings and sensitivities are going to do to your mix.

Another thing that you HAVE to take into account is what type of system you are planning on playing this music on, because different types of sound systems as well as different types of music are all going to have different responses and sonic 'needs'. Some systems are going to afford more headroom for dynamics, and others are going to compress the shit out of your mix. Is your track supposed to be just a wall of sound on a club rig, or something moody and dynamic for home listening, or kinda bouncy and bumpin for the car, or flat and simple for articulation of each sound? You're the composer/engineer, so you need to decide these things when you're at the point in the creative process where you've got the composition part done and are now dialing the mix in.

A mix is kind of like a sonic jigsaw puzzle, in that every sound has a specific slot in the mix that it takes up, and you only have so much headroom in a mix on any particular frequency of the harmonic spectrum. Thus, if you want each of your sounds to be clear, and audible in a mix, you have to leave or make room for them with eq'ing and simple syncopation. If you have a deep and bassy kick, and then you try to stick a deep square/sine wave heavy bass note in the mix at the same time, neither sound is going to come through well. Thus, you have to either make the bass notes and kicks come in at different times, or you modify (eq) the character of one sound or the other so tht they don't interfere, with each other, but rather leave room for each one to do it's 'thing' in the mix. This goeas for all sounds and frequency ranges, although you'll learn that different ranges behave differently, and will need different types of handling.

Another thing that you have to realize is that these sounds working together may have a completely different character than one thier own. You may have a snare that sounds just lame and squawky, like some popping 'conk!', but then you you put it into the mix with the hats, the bass, the kicks, and whatever auxiliary percussio, pads, and melodies, if you're into that, and it just sits perfectly tight, with all of the other effects going on. The reason why I say snare as an example is because all of the sounds fit and work together. Dub has big fat basses because it uses plinky punchy little drum sounds that leave loads of room for it in the mix. Same with D'n'B. Techno often has this enormous kick, but the basslines tend to be more midrangey, because it's the kick that is taking up the lowest frequencies in the mix.


These are generalizations, but they should give you an idea as to what to listen for in other mixes to use as reference ideas for how you want to approach your own mix.

Most importantly, use your ears, not numbers.


Hope this helps.

Ape



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Message 10/13                 Date: 07-Mar-03  @  07:01 PM   -   RE: Bass. EQ Roll off.

Boo

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Well thanks guys. I kinda understand about Kick/Bass interplay and cutting holes already, but nicely put, pongoid. I guess the thing is that some people say cut at 20, others say at 30 and I've even heard people cutting all below 35-40. Eeek. I know it's a case of using one's ears, but surely there IS a point where it is all just speaker flap and mud, but I guess it's different for each noise.

Thanks - I'll play around a bit.



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